The Most Valuable U.S. Coins

1913 Liberty Head nickel
1913 Liberty Head nickel

What are the most valuable U.S. coins?  That’s a common question, usually asked by people who don’t own any of them and likely never will.

Obviously, the most valuable U.S. coins are also going to be among the rarest, as there is a fairly direct correlation between value and rarity.  Not everything that is rare is valuable, but pretty much any coin that is valuable is rare.

U.S. coins are among the most heavily collected coins in the world, and even collectors outside the U.S. are interested in owning some of the more well-known collectible coins.  That’s particularly true of gold coins, which are relatively rare.

Such lists are subjective, and always likely to change, as coins change hands all the time. Still, the coins listed below are among the most sought after and expensive U.S. coins ever made.

1933 Double Eagle ($20 gold piece) – While nearly a half a million of these $20 gold pieces were minted in early 1933, exactly 0 were released to circulation, as Franklin Roosevelt signed an order shortly after taking office in January of that year that eliminated U.S. gold currency.  All of the coins minted were ordered to be melted down, but a few are known to have survived.

These coins are not legal to own, but the U.S. Government made an exception in 2002 for a single specimen, which sold at auction for $7.59 million.  The price would likely have been higher, but rumors suggest that other examples exist, all in private hands of collectors who know how to keep a secret.

1804 Silver Dollar
1804 Silver Dollar

1913 Liberty Head nickel – This was the year that the Liberty Head nickel was replaced with the Buffalo Nickel, but 5 examples were minted by a mint employee.  The last sale of one of these brought more than $3 million.

1804 Silver dollar – There were reportedly some 18,000 silver dollars minted in 1804, but it appears that those might have used old dies bearing the 1803 date.  In the 1834, the U.S. government wanted to prepare a complete set of currently circulating U.S. coins for the king of Siam, and at that time, no silver dollars had been minted since 1804, but were still listed as “current” coinage.

Someone at the mint produced a handful of silver dollars in 1834 bearing the 1804 date for inclusion in the set.  In the 1850s, a few more were struck by a Mint employee and perhaps 35 or so examples were made in total.

All are very rare today, and the last known sale took place in 1999, with a sale price in excess of $4 million.

1794 Silver dollar – The first silver dollar produced in the U.S., and one of the rarest, with only some 2000 made.  You’ll likely have to pay something on the order of $1 million if you’d like to own one in presentable condition.

There are other very rare coins, and prices increase all the time due to collector demand.  These are simply a few examples of some of the more highly sought out examples.  There are plenty of others, including the 1907 Double Eagle and a few experimental pieces.

If you’re going to put together a world class coin collection today, you need millions to do it.


Coins and Watches Meet Up at Corum

corum gold piece watchCoins and watches seem like an odd pairing, and for the most part, people who collect one do not collect the other.  Collecting either can be both a time consuming and an expensive hobby, so it would make sense that not everyone is going to be interested in collecting both.

There is a place where the two hobbies intersect, however, and that comes from a watchmaker named Corum.  Corum is unique in offering a watch that features a genuine coin on the watch face, and the technology that allows them to make a watch that features a relatively thick coin as the focus of the watch while keeping the watch from becoming overly bulky is rather advanced.

Corum introduced the coin watch in the early 1960s, and early models made use of the U.S. gold $20 piece, which had not been available to the general public since 1932.  There were some concerns at the time about whether using a coin in a way constituted “defacing” it, which would have been illegal under U.S. law.

Somehow, these issues have been avoided, and the company continues to make coin watches to this day.  Newer versions make use of commemorative coins and newer, limited-edition gold issues that are intentionally made to resemble the gold coins of the 1920s.

These are remarkable watches, whether you’re buying one with a gold $20 piece as its focus or a .925 silver commemorative coin.

corum coin watchCase sizes range from 36mm to 43mm, and the watches tend to be made with the reverse side as the coin face and the obverse side facing your wrist.  That’s OK, as the case is covered with sapphire crystal on both sides, which allows you to see both sides of the coin.

The process of slicing the coin in two horizontally is a complicated one, and one that is proprietary to Corum.  They’re not talking about how they do it, but they’ve been doing it for some 50 years now, so they’ve gotten pretty good at it.

The movement offered in the current versions of the watch is a 30 jewel automatic movement with a power reserve of 72 hours.  Cases are mostly yellow gold with a diamond mounted on the crown.

While many of the watches Corum has made over the years have used $20 gold pieces, they’ve also made slightly smaller watches that featured $5 and $10 gold pieces.  The $5 pieces are generally used in watches for women, due to their smaller size.

While one can usually get a bargain buying a watch second hand, that’s not always the case with the Corum coin watch, as the coins themselves have intrinsic value that tends to keep the prices, even for used and non-working models rather high.  Of course, non-working models can generally be repaired, either by a competent watch repair shop or by Corum itself.

Prices range from a low of $1000 for a non-working $5 coin model to $20,000 or more for $20 gold piece models with some provenance.  Many famous people have worn Corum coin watches over the years, and occasionally, models owned by someone with a famous name will pop up for sale.  New models run in the $10,000-$20,000 range.

If you like coins and you like watches, the Corum coin watch is a nice fit, albeit an expensive one.


The Appeal of Owning a Rolex

vintage rolexThere are many brands of luxury watches, but one of the most popular is Rolex.  They have been making watches for a long time, and they have many established models that have been available for decades.

The company is long on innovation, and they haven’t resorted to mass producing their timepieces over time.  They still make them by hand, and their classic models – the Submariner, the Sea Dweller, the Datejust and the Explorer, among them, have had little change over the decades.

But they do change from time to time, and those changes, no matter how minuscule, draw collector attention.  The change might be as simple as adding a magnification window for the date or changing the color of the watch face or hands, but collectors do notice, and when this happens, prices for older models can go through the roof.

A pre-owned Rolex can be a good value, too.  While new models are quite expensive, especially with cases made of anything but stainless steel, older models can be a relative bargain.   I say “relative,” because rock-bottom for any working and authentic Rolex these days is usually in the low thousands of dollars.

There was a time when you could find a used one for hundreds of dollars, but we’re several decades beyond that now.  You should take care when buying a pre-0wned Rolex, however, as there are a number of things that need to be taken into consideration before you buy:

  • Is the watch genuine?  There are many, many fake and reproduction Rolex watches on the market, and some of them are quite convincing.  If you’re unsure of what you’re buying or you don’t know your seller, you should exercise caution and avoid buying if you’re not receiving some sort of guarantee.
  • Is the watch all original?  There are companies that take genuine Rolex watches and then modify them – adding color to the case via a PVD technique or adding diamonds or other gemstones to the watch that weren’t originally intended to be there.   While adding bling to a watch might make it appealing to some buyers, such models are no longer completely original and are unlikely to increase in value over time.

vintage rolexThere are several ranges of Rolex watches to consider.  Vintage models are those that are more than 30 years old.  There are some bargains to be had there, but many older models sell for lots of money on the second hand market.  Newer models, of course, will come at a premium, especially if you buy from an authorized retailer.

New models can sometimes be purchased through “gray market” retailers, but again, you should be sure that you know whom you’re buying from to be sure you’re getting the real thing.  There are many legitimate retailers who sell new old stock models at reduced prices.

The best bargains are to be found in models that are no longer new but which aren’t yet vintage.  These are often referred to as “discontinued” models and those are the ones who are currently “bottoming out” when it comes to price.  Before long, they’ll be considered vintage, and then the price will go up again.

A Rolex watch is not only a good watch to own, but it could potentially be a good investment, too.

Swiss Designer Watches Making a Comeback

Seiko Astron 35SQ
Seiko Astron 35SQ – The world’s first quartz watch

Both watch buyers and watchmakers have been a bit confused by the market over the past few years.  The emergence of so-called “smart” watches has made the market a bit unpredictable.

Smartwatches are wristwatches that can interface with a smartphone, allowing the wearer to track fitness statistics, control music on their phone and receive alerts when they receive email or text messages.   Smartwatches, led by the Apple Watch, have sold well, and have in recent years put a sizable dent in the sales of Swiss designer watches, which have led the market for decades.

While sales of traditional Swiss watches have slowed in the past few years, they have recently started to climb again, much to the relief of Swiss watchmakers.  Many have been in business long enough to recall the early 1970s, when the then-new quartz watches took over the market and threatened to put makers of traditional luxury watches out of business altogether.

That eventually passed.  Some companies went out of business.  Others adapted to produce a mixture of mechanical and electronic watches.  Luxury makers mostly doubled down on the luxury, producing better, more expensive, and more elaborate timepieces that appealed to well-heeled buyers.

That appears to be what is happening now, as people are starting to realize that Swiss watches have things to offer that smartwatches, at least for now, do not.  Mechanical watches, particularly high end ones, offer examples of fine craftsmanship.  They are accurate timepieces, and with care, they can run well and last for decades.

That is not the case with smartwatches, as it wasn’t the case with quartz watches of the early 1970s.  While there is a bit of a collector market for early quartz watches, working examples of early models are quite hard to find, as they simply weren’t built to last for decades.  In comparison, Swiss watches from the same era have done far better in terms of appreciation over the years.  There are few quartz watches that sell for a lot of money, though the now-rare Seiko Astron 35SQ, the world’s first commercially produced quartz watch, does sell for $6000 or so when it turns up for sale.  While that seems like a lot of money, it’s about what the watch sold for new when inflation is taken into account.

1970s Rolex
A 1970s Rolex has held up quite well, price-wise

Most buyers, however, would rather own a vintage Rolex or Patek Philippe from the same era, and those watches sell for far more now than they did when they were new.

Over time, many current smartwatches are going to end up in landfills.  They’re going to be replaced by newer models with more features, but they still will not likely be capable of working for years to come.  That’s the difference between electronic watches and mechanical ones, and buyers who respect the difference are now returning to buy the Swiss designer watches that they’d previously been buying for many years.

It will take years for all of this to sort itself out.  Many buyers of smartwatches are people who ordinarily wouldn’t wear a wristwatch, so they haven’t been affecting the mechanical market much at all.  Other buyers are simply novelty seekers, and a few are likely hardcore watch collectors who are interested in both mechanical watches and new electronic gadgets.

In time, the Swiss watch industry will make a rebound, and it looks like that is already happening.  According to Rapaport, Swiss watch exports were up 5% in June and that continues a trend that started earlier this year.

Still, if you’re sitting on a first generation Apple Watch, it probably would be wise to put it back in the box and save it for a few years.  Eventually, it will sell for a lot as a collectible…provided that it still works.

Do You Need a World Time Watch?

chopard luc time traveler oneThere’s a lot going on at any given time in the watchmaking world, as a big part of any luxury brand’s day seems to involve coming up with something that will attract the attention of buyers.

That makes sense, as the market is somewhat crowded and there are only so many buyers out there.  On the other hand, a lot of buyers own more than one watch and will gladly buy more if they see some new shiny thing that they don’t already have.  That’s why makers are always tweaking their product line, coming up with new complications, features, and precious metals combinations to try to attract people to buy.

One elaborate complication that we’re seeing more of these days is the idea of a world time watch.  A world time watch is one of the busier looking watches out there, and they tend to make a chronograph look rather tame by comparison.  If you’re the kind of person who likes a simple watch face, a world time watch is not going to be for you.

The term “world time” isn’t just a clever name; the watches are designed, more or less, to be able to show you the time of day anywhere on the planet.  The main display will always show you the local time, but most world time watches also have a rotating dial that will show you the time of day in 24 other places around the globe.

A good example would be the new Chopard L.U.C Time Traveler One, a limited edition model that also represents the company’s first attempt at a world time watch.  This particular timepiece uses the company’s own calibre 01.05-L movement and the timepiece will also display seconds and the date.  It’s also a self-winding automatic, and you can view the entire mechanism via the sapphire crystal case back.

You adjust the time via the crown at 2 o’clock, and you adjust the world time ring using the crown at 4 o’clock, which has a globe on it so you won’t confuse the two.

chopard luc time traveler oneThe end result is an interesting watch, but like all world time watches, it also has a very busy face.  If you’re just looking for the time, you’ll find this one a bit cluttered.  On the other hand, if you actually need a watch that tells you the time of day in 24 different time zones, what kind of person are you and what do you do for a living?

We’re not really sure that a world time watch is something that anyone really needs. On the other hand, if you’re a collector of gadgets, a fan of watches with complications, or just a fan of Chopard watches in general, this is one you’ll likely find to be interesting.  It may, or may not, be one that you’ll be adding to your collection anytime soon, depending on your finances.  The Chopard L.U.C Time Traveler One is available in stainless steel, rose gold, and platinum, at roughly $13,000, $23,000 and $36,000 respectively.

It’s nice to see that you can get it in steel, as the watch is essentially the same, aside from the case material, as the platinum version.  On the other hand, it’s roughly one third of the price.

As production is limited, this one will likely be hard to find regardless of your finances, so if you need to know the time in Burkina Faso, you might just have to ask someone.

An Alternative to the Smart Watch

smart buckleThe smartwatch has been around for a few years now, and it has caused a bit of trembling within the watch industry.  Unlike the quartz revolution of some 50 years ago, watchmakers don’t seen overly concerned right now that the smartwatch will put them out of business.

It’s the smartwatch industry that seems to have a problem right now – finding buyers who like watches.  They’ve already established their credentials among the geeks and fanboys who already buy any “smart” gadget that comes along.  The problem is that they cannot persuade people who are actually fans of wristwatches, and more particularly, fans of mechanical wristwatches, to come aboard and join the parade.

The truth is that it’s unlikely to happen.  People who collect watches realize that they can get more accurate time from a $20 Chinese-made quartz watch than they can from their Audemars Piguet.  The fact is that the Audemars is going to keep time that is accurate enough, while showing off the creativity and engineering prowess that they admire and which cannot be found in a bargain-basement quartz watch.

Many watch collectors view smartwatches as nothing more than dressed-up cheap quartz watches, and they simply cannot get excited about them.

What the smartwatch community needs to do is find another way to reach those millions of potential customers, and an interesting article that we found the other day suggests an interesting alternative – the smart watch strap.

While many watches have metal bracelets that are fixed, a lot of watches have interchangeable straps that can be replaced to suit the owner.  If the strap is leather, you’re likely to have to replace it from time to time, anyway, as leather straps do wear out with repeated wear.

A smart strap could use many of the same features that a smartwatch does, but would instead incorporate them into a strap that could be added to nearly any brand of watch, including some very expensive mechanical models.

Obviously, some care would have to be taken in order to make the strap attractive and allow it to blend in with the watch itself.  You’re not going to put on your very expensive and elegant looking Oris with a bright green plastic smart strap.   Makers could likely make them look like leather straps so that they wouldn’t draw attention to themselves.

smart buckleSo far, there hasn’t been a lot of action in this field, but one company is already marketing a “smart buckle” that will allow you to keep track of fitness statistics while wearing the strap of your choice.  It’s a good start.

Eventually, some sort of standard will probably be developed so that the Android and iOS developers can come up with a functional and attractive solution that will allow anyone to turn any kind of watch into a smart one without having to give up their mechanical movement or elaborate complications.

These things take time, but money is a big motivator.  The smartwatch manufacturers know that there is a large group of potential buyers who are simply not going to buy a smartwatch, now or ever.  The sooner they figure out a way to tap into that market, the sooner they’ll start making big money.

What is a Tool Watch?

Breitling avvenger Blackbird
Breitling Avvenger Blackbird

People have all kinds of reasons for buying luxury watches, and for buying watches in general.  That’s especially true of collectors, who buy things for all manner of reasons that may or may not make sense to non-collectors.

Most people who buy watches, however, buy one, at least initially, in order to have a device that will provide them with the time when they need it.  There are other considerations, of course, such as fashion, and that’s how people end up owning entire display cases of timepieces so they can use watches to accessorize their wardrobe.

That’s fine, and there are lots of people for whom that’s a motivator when buying a luxury watch.  But then there’s something known as  a “tool watch.”

The term isn’t that well known, and likely isn’t well known among the general public, but the term “tool watch” doesn’t refer to a Swiss Army-style device that has knife blades, screwdrivers or corkscrews built in. (Interestingly enough, Swiss Army does make watches, but they don’t have those features, either.)

No, a tool watch is a watch that has likely been purchased by the owner in order to perform some function or specific task related to their job or perhaps a sideline.  If you’re an airplane pilot, for instance, you will likely want to own a watch that can offer some features above and beyond simply offering you the time.  You might want a rotating bezel so you can keep track of elapsed time or you might want a timepiece that displays the time in multiple time zones so that you’ll always be able to determine the time where you’re coming from as well as the time where you’re going.

Other popular tool watches would be certain chronographs that are useful for people who race cars (or anything else) for a living.  There are far too many such watches on the market to describe a specific one here as an ideal example of the niche, but most people are aware of a chronograph.

Perhaps the ultimate example of a a tool watch would be watches designed specifically for divers.   While dive watches have become a bit of a fashion item and are often worn by people who rarely, if ever, put a toe in the water, there are some pretty rugged diving watches on the market.  First and foremost among features, of course, would be water resistance that is far above and beyond that which is normally required from a wristwatch.  The Rolex Submariner, for instance, has a rated water resistance of some 300 meters or so, making it a watch that will be useful for nearly anyone who regularly gets in the water.

Rolex Submariner
Rolex Submariner

These watches will also have a rotating bezel and usually one that rotates only in one direction, so that the diver can keep track of elapsed time.  This allows them to keep track of how long they’ve been in the water and how much air they may have left remaining in their tank.  When you’re underwater, knowing the time of day may or may not be useful, but knowing the amount of air you have remaining is critical.

There are other examples of tool watches on the market, but it’s worth noting that there are many timepieces available that serve purposes other than the obvious one of showing the time of day to the wearer.

You Keep Paying for Luxury Watches

watch parts So, you’ve saved up your money to buy that Rolex you’ve always wanted.  Or perhaps it’s an Oris or a Tissot.  It doesn’t matter.  You’ve wanted it for years and it costs thousands and you’ve saved the money.

You buy it, and fork over that hard-earned cash.  Now you have it.  It’s paid for.  You’ve spent a fortune, but aside from perhaps a bit of additional insurance on it you don’t have any other ongoing expenses with it, right?

Wrong.  If you’ve purchased a high end luxury mechanical watch, you will be spending money on it regularly for the rest of your life.  Not only that, but the money you spend on that watch could work out to hundreds of dollars per year, depending on the brand.

“How is that?,” you ask.  Mechanical watches are mechanical devices.  Parts move.  Parts break.  Parts wear out.  Parts get dust and dirt and grime in them and on them, and those things can prevent the watch from keeping accurate time, or from being able to keep time at all.

Most luxury watchmakers recommend that you have your mechanical watches serviced at regular intervals.  “Serviced” means that you’re going to put the watch in a box, mail it back to the manufacturer so that they can work on it at their factory, and wait for them to send you a bill.

That bill could easily be $500 or more, and you might need to do that as often as every two years, depending on the model.

Why so expensive?  There are a number of reasons.  When you send a luxury watch in for service, a trained technician will disassemble it and carefully examine the movement to see if there are any worn or damaged parts.  If so, they will need to be replaced.

Those parts may or may not be on hand, depending on the make and model of the watch.  If they aren’t available, the company may have to fabricate new ones.  Regardless, there’s going to be a bill for the new parts.  After that, the movement will need to be thoroughly cleaned and adjusted for accuracy.  Finally, after the watch has been put back together, it will need to be cleaned and polished on the outside.

When you get it back, it will likely work and look like new.  Those are good things.  But you’ll have to repeat the process again in a couple of years.

Friction is the enemy, and mechanical watches have moving parts.  Some of them move millions of times in a year.  Jewels in the movement are intended to reduce friction, but physics is physics, and everything has friction.

A few companies are introducing new movements with composite parts that are intended to reduce friction.  But a watch that will never require regular service is just a dream.  If you want to own a mechanical watch, you’re going to have to accept that it will require regular maintenance.

On the plus side, a well-maintained high end watch will work well for decades.  On the downside, it comes with a recurring bill that you’re just going to have to pay as part of the price of owning an amazing piece of technology.

Getting the Most for Your Luxury Watch

sell your watchYou’ll find lots of articles online about buying luxury watches, and that makes sense – lots of people buy luxury watches all the time.  But sometimes, you want to sell a luxury watch.

The reasons can vary – perhaps you just don’t want the watch anymore.  Perhaps you want to use the money to buy something else.  Perhaps you simply need the money.  Whatever the reason, you’re going to have to address various issues when you want to sell a luxury watch.  After all, it’s a lot easier to buy a luxury watch than it is to sell one, especially if you’re trying to get top dollar.

Here are a few ways that you can sell a luxury watch.  Each has their pros and cons:

  • Private sale.  If you know someone personally who wants to buy your watch, obviously, that’s the way to go.  There is no middleman, you can quickly come to a price, and you can accept whatever payment terms you like.
  • Auction house.  This works best for ultra-rare items.  You can consign your watch through auction houses such as Christies, Phillips, or Sotheby’s. This isn’t for a run-of-the-mill Omega Speedmaster, but if you have an unusual Audemars Piguet or Patek Philippe or an original Rolex Paul Newman Daytona, you might find that they’re interested.  They’ll add a fee on top of the sales price for the buyer to pay.
  • Auction it yourself.  You can sell it on eBay, for instance, for either a fixed price or an auction price.  Upside – you’ll get as much as the market is willing to bear.  Downsides – you’d best have a lot of provenance.  EBay will take a fee for the listing and a portion of the final value price.  There’s a lot of competition, even at the high end, so your watch may get lost in the shuffle unless it’s something really unusual.
  • Pawn shop.  Great for getting a quick sale.  The downside is that you’re not going to get top dollar.  Pawn shops aren’t the best places to buy high end watches, so pawnbrokers aren’t likely to pay top dollar to get yours, as it might end up sitting on their shelf for a long time before they can sell it.
  • Consignment.  Some jewelers and watch dealers will sell the item on consignment.  They will usually take a percentage of the sales price as a commission.  Downside – It might take a long time to sell, depending on the watch and the clientele of the seller.

selling a watchThere are also a few dealers of watches online who buy high end watches for resale.  You won’t get full retail price, but you might get a fair wholesale price for the watch.  Some of these retailers pay quickly, sometimes overnight and a few even offer to pay the shipping to get the watch to them.  A Web search will turn up a number of companies that regularly buy and sell second hand watches.

With anything collectible, it can be difficult to sell quickly while also getting a good return on your purchase price.  There is usually a tradeoff between getting a quick sale and getting the most money.

Still, if you have a worthwhile watch to sell, it shouldn’t be too difficult to find a buyer for it.

Two-Tone Watches are Back!

New two-tone Audemars Piguet
New two-tone Audemars Piguet

They say that what goes around comes around and when it comes to anything related to fashion, that’s often the case.  No, we’re not expecting to see bell bottom trousers return anytime soon, though we can’t rule out their return at some point in the future.

Just as children’s names cycle every few generations, so do fashion designs.  Things become popular, people buy them, people grow tired of them, they go out of style and something else is “in” for a while.  Then, the cycle repeats, as people get tired of that, and want something new.

Eventually, you run out of new things to offer, so you dust off something old that they haven’t seen in a while, and you present it as new.  Then they get excited and buy it.  Of course, when this happens, the people who do remember them from the first time around will scold you and point out that the “new” thing you’re buying isn’t really new, but that’s how fashion works.

That’s why we’re seeing two-tone watches again.

Two-tone watches were introduced at this year’s Baselworld exhibition and a number of watchmakers are beginning to offer these models, which are seen by younger buyers as being edgy and more daring.

In recent years, makers have opted for a single color model, which might be all yellow gold, or all platinum, or all white gold, or all stainless steel.  New models are now combining one metal with another or one of various other materials (composite; carbon fiber, or ceramic) to give a busier look to their wares.

One advantage is that a watch that’s made of part steel and part yellow gold is more affordable than one that’s all gold, yet it has the distinction of offering a different look and one that’s now eye-catching, given that two-tone watches have been absent from the marketplace for quite a while.

Of course, they’re still available on the second hand market, and even in high end models, it’s not too hard to find, say, a two-tone Rolex from the 1980s.  They’re out there, but as the trend continues, even the second hand market is likely to dry up in the near future.  Plus, as styles change and more people start to embrace the two-tone look, those vintage models that have up until recently been bargains are going to start getting a bit more expensive.

A vintage two-tone Rolex
A vintage two-tone Rolex

Regardless of your taste, if you’re looking for something that’s a bit different today, you might want to look at a two tone watch.  We wouldn’t recommend waiting, however, as by this time next year, everyone is likely to be wearing two tone watches.  At that point, you’ll likely be starting to look for something new and different.

At that point, watchmakers will come up with something new.  Or they’ll dust off something old, give it a new name, and present it to you as something you haven’t seen before.  Or at least, haven’t seen since the 1990s.

That’s the way fashion works.  What’s here today is gone tomorrow…and back again in a couple of decades.  What goes around comes around, and it works that way with watches, too.